After you finish, answer the following question as a COMMENT on the blog.
Q: Talking about emotions, love, death, or otherwise being "weak" was very taboo in British society at this time. What subjects or relationships do you feel are taboo in our own society? And I don't just mean awkward subjects (abortion, politics, etc.), but what emotions or experiences would you have trouble discussing with your parents, your siblings, your friends, and even your significant others? What does society make difficult for us to acknowledge with anyone but ourselves?
REMEMBER, If you can't post on the blog, you can either try to make a blogspot account (very easy to do), or you can e-mail your response with the next set of questions. I'll post questions for the next stories sometime tomorrow. Remember, too, that deadlines are very loose now: post responses as soon as you can, or you can send me two responses at once. I'm more interested in you doing the work than doing it exactly on time.
Carla Torres:
ReplyDeleteOne subject that is "taboo" in our society is emotions. Many people think that others are not allowed to express their emotions for many reasons. One way that I can relate to this in my life is when I express my emotions others see it as weak when it is not. I think that sharing emotions are very important and the characters in Mansfield's stories often find it hard to express their emotions as well. Our society makes it difficult for us to express our emotions causing us to re-evaluate ourselves. Just like you mentioned in your video how society causes us to view life as something bad versus what it can be like. Society causes us to view things in our life very different causing us to look at life differently.
Yes, exactly; emotions are seen as people who aren't trying hard enough, and in British society at this time, the idea of a "stiff upper lip" was paramount. Showing any kind of 'weakness' was frowned upon, which is why Ma Parker can't find a decent place to cry and unburden herself. She's supposed to take it all on and keep going. The same is true for the daughters of the 'late colonel,' who are terrified of being weak, since their father would berate them. Even in death, they fear his judgment. It's really sad, and though we generally have more tolerance for this, it's still a weakness--as those people should just get on with their lives and not waste time 'feeling'!
DeleteCallie Farley:
ReplyDeleteI agree with Carla that emotions are a pretty "taboo" topic in our society. Thankfully, our society is changing a bit and most people, particularly the young, are accepting of mental health issues. However, I still think that a lot of people feel like they, themselves, cant express their emotions. A lot of people feel like their emotions aren't valid or important enough to concern people with or just that it makes them appear "weak". Even though our society is talking more about mental health we still struggle with accepting our own emotions. I know that I really struggle with reaching out to people when I feel anxious or sad because I don't want people to see my different or think that I can't handle certain things. Also, if i know that a friend is struggling, I don't want them to be worried about me.
Yes, and this is all the more true for women, who are often said to be "emotional" in a negative sense. Feeling deeply and visibly is seen as weak or unprofessional. Unless the emotion is anger, and then it's acceptable (for men, at least). But having deep sympathy or compassion is seen as a weakness, and I think this was definitely true for Mansfield's day as well...which is why as a writer, she can force us to look through compassionate eyes at people we might otherwise ignore.
DeleteA topic that seems “taboo” in today’s society is depression. Depression is a topic that many people feel they must keep to themself because they feel “weak” and they are embarrassed to get help. By admitting that one is struggling, they open the door to receive help. Depression is more common than many people would be willing to admit, and those who struggle with it feel as if society would judge them for needing guidance. This is why so many people who need counseling refuse to go. The first step to fixing a problem is admitting that help is needed. Unfortunately, society does judge people who have these problems, but every person struggles with something, which is the fact that many people tend to forget. This topic is difficult to discuss with people who care about you because society judges, and they fear people would be disappointed.
ReplyDeleteGreat point--depression is most often chemical, and has nothing to do with being sad about anything in particular. And yet, we continue to see it as a personal failing, and I imagine many of the women in these stories (and the men, too) could be diagnosed with depression as well--especially the mothers. This makes it harder to connect with your loved ones, and forces you to isolate more and more away from society. Mansfield certainly suffered from it, so she related to those who had the same tendencies.
DeleteI agree with everyone that was responded so far. Mental health is such a taboo topic for my family. My parents are very religious and they think that if you're depressed it's because your faith isn't strong enough. I think it is hard for my parents to understand mental health problems because it was not something that was talked about when they were growing up. To them it didn't exist. It is much easier talking to my brothers or friends about mental health because we have all gone through something or know someone that has gone through something along the lines of mental health. I have a couple of friends who refuse to tell their parents about their mental health problems because they think they are just searching for attention. It is really sad that sometimes we can't tell these types of things to our parents because we are afraid of them judging us when they should be accepting of the situations we are facing.
ReplyDeleteYes, and I think your parents' viewpoint is similar to how the entire world saw it in Mansfield's time. There was no postpartum depression, no PTSD, no chemical imbalances...it was a personal decision to be happy or not. Mansfield struggled with this all her life, and her stories were not only therapy, but a way of showing people the inner world of unhappy people. It's not a choice but a reality, especially when someone like Ma Parker doesn't even have a space to cry in. There's no being weak in this world, which is exhausting, and will ultimately drive you mad.
DeleteOne good way to avoid making friends is to resist easy answers to troubling questions. It's not that the topics are taboo - with the Internet at our disposal, most people can find an audience with which to discuss almost anything - it's that there is a certain approach to these topics that makes people uncomfortable.
ReplyDeleteFor example, on the topic of race: there is a reason so many of us just love President Obama. We know he falls short sometimes, as every public servant does, but to the white gaze, he epitomizes respectable, intellectual, handsome and dorky-cool Blackness. His popularity isn't universal but it's a force to contend with. In contrast, Ta-Nehisi Coates, a well-known Black author who writes beautifully and insightfully on issues of inequality and, in particular, the legacy of slavery, could never hope to achieve that sort of widespread popularity. The difference is that much of President Obama's charm is his way of making America feel as though our race problems are solved, while Coates' mission is to force us to see the one million reasons that that is completely untrue. And he can't tell us how to fix it, because it's a problem beyond our scope.
I'm not saying that I hate President Obama (I miss the Obama era fiercely, just like many of my classmates), but I am saying that I broke up with my former boyfriend the night after he asked me to quit telling him about the book I was reading (Coates' We Were Eight Years In Power) because it was so depressing. . .
Mansfield's time was different, of course - she didn't have the Internet, and it was frowned upon to discuss many topics that we bring up casually today - but I think it's a similar principle at work. Now we talk about race and gender, sex and relationships, class and inequality, but there remains an expectation that we keep up the charade in other ways.
Yes, great points here--often, our leaders give us easy answers (here's the miracle cure for coronavirus, etc.) when the reality is much more complex and requires a closer look at historical and social realities. Many people did point to Obama and said, "you see, racism is over, since we elected a black president." But then he was vilified, hounded, and degraded throughout his two terms. Clearly, very little had changed, although it could look that way without scrutiny. It's the same in Mansfield: society looks compassionate, well-ordered, and balanced...yet people are miserable, divided, trapped, and unfulfilled. No one is truly happy in these stories, and everyone is looking for something to connect to...yet to do that is to admit your weakness for all to see. I'm afraid we're not so different today!
DeleteAnd of course, you should know better, not dating a proper English major! :)
Isaac Bellinger
ReplyDeleteAs men in todays society it is hard for us to talk about psychological issues that we may be facing. Things such as anxiety, depression, and loneliness. When we try to talk about things of this nature, especially to other men we come off as weak. Most men will just tell us to get over it, or that it is not that bad. Well in reality, they do not know because they are not in your shoes. Even worse when we talk about these things we are suddenly outcasts in society just on the basis that we do not think the same as everyone else around us. When in reality, it is not a bad thing to think different. There is just a stereotype that men are these tough rugged individuals and if you do not fit that mold then you are a sensitive pansy in todays society.
Yes, the dreaded word "pansy," or the other P-word is often lobbed at men who don't fit into an arbitrary stereotype of masculinity. It's hard to discuss our anxieties or mental issues without being seen as weak or not upholding to the standard of our grandfathers (many of whom undoubtedly suffered from depression or PTSD, ironically). So the stigma of Mansfield's time remains, as we assume that you're either tough or you're not, ignoring the fact that the brain is more complicated than any make-believe standard of toughness.
DeleteAs for our society in 2020, we are a lot more comfortable with talking about topics that were once taboo - sexuality, politics, sex, mental health, emotion etc. Yet there is one topic that seems to be uncomfortable to many, indecisiveness.
ReplyDeleteI suppose it's because along with the openness of our society, we still have a sense of structure that individuals find important to uphold. For example, say that you are indecisive in your sexuality. It's hard to bring that topic up to others. "Yes, well, I know I am romantically and sexually attracted to men, but I think I like women as well. I'm just not really sure yet." A common response is, "Oh, don't worry about that! You'll figure it out soon. I'm sure you're just doubting yourself." Well, what if we don't want to make up our minds soon? A common theme is that doubt always comes with a solution, but what if we are fine without finding the answer? The same goes with whether or not you want to find a career in college or outside of it. Many tell you that you will figure it out soon, but what if you dont?
I'm not saying that you should continue to live in doubt without worry, but more pointing out that "not knowing" is often frowned upon. It shames us from openly discussing us with others for fear of judgement.
Two really big responses here, and dead-on: the idea of uncertainty that goes along with identity, particularly an identity linked to sexuality. This is important, since some people never really figure out who they are, at least in an all-encompassing sense. I think society makes it difficult to figure this out. You have to go on your own journey of self-discovery and ignore other people's signposts. But how to do this when everyone is wanting you to hit this or that benchmark, and you have money to make? WHile I think everyone SHOULD worry about who you are and why, it is true that if you spend time worrying, you can figure it out. The people who usually don't figure it out are the ones who take someone else's answer and try to live with it. Someone else can give you a plausible answer, but you need to decide it if fits before it becomes your everyday attire.
DeleteI think simply disagreeing with people and trying to show them where they might need to reconsider their argument or beliefs has become such a conversation-killer nowadays. Often, when I try a logic exercise with someone (say, attempting to show them how uncommon "common sense" is once you really think about the implications of that concept), they will become frustrated and act like we can't go any further in our discussion, which is so sad to me. It seems to show the aversion to anything but surface-level education and communication we have as a society now. To be blunt, it is pretty bad when I ask someone why they are upset at something I said and instead of telling me, they just blow me off or accuse me of thinking I am better than them, especially when I am trying to be calm and compassionate even when I think they are wrong. While it does hurt sometimes to have stalemates in disagreements, it is better to attempt discussion and risk an impasse than to act like we can never have hard conversations, because those are part of how we grow as individuals and together.
ReplyDeleteYes, great points here...we're in a society where disagreement is seen as uncivil and even ignorant. To argue is to be a troublemaker, and someone who doesn't listen, whereas argumentation (civil argumentation) is the cornerstone of a democracy and the whole point of a college education. We're in college not merely to get a job (that's a side-effect), but to learn how to critically examine our world and participate in an intellectual debate about who we are, and where we stand in relation to our peers. Discussion is the basis for all thought. You can't believe in something you haven't tried to argue about with someone else. Because putting things into words and defending positions forces you to think about WHY you believe in them, and HOW they make sense to others. Faith itself is a matter of argument and discourse. There's no faith, no belief, and no thought without doubt and discussion.
DeleteSociety has become so open that nothing is really taboo. However, there does seem to be a taboo around absolutes. People get upset with absolutes. We seem to have fallen into a grey area where all actions are acceptable as long as there is a good(subjective) reason for it. For example, if I say stealing is wrong, someone is going to become upset because they feel a thief might have a good reason for stealing. I would say the reason is irrelevant, stealing,by definition, is wrong. It is an absolute. Socially, absolutes have become a no-no.
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting response to the prompt...I had never really thought about this. Do you think this is something we can discuss in public, this idea of the lack of absolutes? Or is it something we take for granted? Has our current leadership made this more of an "okay" issue?
DeleteOur own emotions are already hard to talk about. I believe that it really depends on the person with what you feel free to talk about and what you do not. For me love is one of those awkward subjects. I often find myself falling for someone quite fast and not receiving those same feelings in return. The emotion I will never talk about is the feeling you feel after being turned down or the love not working out which is sadness. Nobody wants to talk to their friends or family about what they feel like they failed at. Some will put these emotions on social media, and then get called out for being seen as weak and some what repulsive for sharing their feelings online or to other people. Sadness is what I feel like is taboo if anything. No one can understand your feelings or your situation but yourself. No matter how hard you try to explain why you are sad, others will just tell you to get it together or let the problem go when it is never that easy.
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree, failure of any kind is taboo in our culture, since we remain a culture of "winning" and 1st place. And that brings a crushing sadness when you don't win, because let's face it, someone has to come in second, third, etc. So that mindset dooms someone to feel like a failure, even if they've played the best game of their life (or if you write a great paper and get a B+ rather than an A-). Failure is a subjective term, and not meeting a benchmark (which is often arbitrary) is how we learn; so is our culture letting us learn?
DeleteIn today's society, even though it has become a lot more open-minded, it still holds many stigmas, especially against those with mental illnesses such as anxiety and depression. I believe that these two specifically are taboo in a sense because they are the ones that are most often regarded by society as an exaggeration to get attention. That's why no one wants to let anyone know if they have it. Whether it be their parents, siblings, friends, significant others, etc., it doesn't matter. Knowing about the stigmas around mental health already makes them feel invalidated enough, they don't want someone else, especially someone that they care about, to say it to their face, too. Most of them don't want to even admit it to themselves, let alone someone else. It would feel like opening themselves up to be attacked. So, I think that stigmas are another way for society to say, "Keep your true emotions and thoughts to yourself. We don't want to hear it." And that's really heartbreaking, because I know that not telling anyone has cost many people their lives.
ReplyDeleteGreat points--we are uncomfortable with any kind of mental imbalance or perceived 'weakness,' and emotions alone often fall into that category. Even though it's recognized medically, we don't like the idea that our emotions and feelings are out of our control (yet even our metaphors acknowledge that they are--we "fall" in love, which suggests a loss of control). In Mansfield's time, women were supposed to be ideals, paintings, in total control of their being. Any woman not conforming to this could be sent to a sanitarium to 'recover.' Today we just give them drugs!
DeleteIn today’s society there aren’t near as many taboo topics as there used to be, we can talk about things, such as sexuality, mental and physical health, emotions, etc. One thing, however that always seems to be a conversation killer is when somebody discusses their problems. For instance, I have a close friend who discusses his life problems to literally anyone, and nobody will listen, they will change the topic or in some instances they will just get up and leave. The taboo that gives me the biggest headache is when you’re talking to someone, and telling them about either how good or bad your day was, or how good of a grade you received and they come back with either that they’re day was absolutely 10x more awful, etc.
ReplyDeleteMake sure to include your name in the comment so I know who you are! If you post anonymously it just calls you "unknown." But yes, one of the most common questions we ask one another is, "how's it going?" or "how are you doing?" But we don't want an answer, it seems. If someone says, "well, I had a terrible time last night, and this happened, and then this..." we would indeed get nervous and walk away. And yet, why would we ask a question that we didn't want to hear the answer to? People from other countries are often confused by this. The saddest thing in life is when you have no one to confess your troubles to...and we see this in Mansfield's stories as well.
DeleteI think one modern-day taboo is grief. In today’s society, everything moves quickly as well as people's emotions. It is almost shameful to show any signs of grief. I also feel that few people feel that they can allow themselves time to grieve. For example, when a person loses someone, they are given a few days off from their responsibilities, and then are expected to jump back in and function like normal. IT is also a topic few people know how to handle, and many adopt the attitude that a person who has experienced something traumatic should forget about what grieves them. I feel like grief is especially taboo around our area, considering many people adopt the mindset of being tough and not crying. Because of this mindset, I feel most people don’t recognize grief in them and their grief comes out in unexpected and negative actions.
ReplyDeleteYes, great point, we allow a little weakness, as long as it's not "excessive." But we all grief at different rates, and some people never truly get over a soul-crushing grief. And if you suppress this grief, as you suggest, it can come out in a terrible way--often as anger, violence, etc. I also hate how people decide what is acceptable to mourn--such as pets. If you lose a pet, I've known people that would laugh at you, and say, "it's just a cat (or dog, etc.)!" I even heard someone once say, "sorry about your grandmother...but oh well, she was pretty old, right?"
DeleteI think something that I have struggled with is admitting when I am wrong and putting others first. As a society, we have decided to value independence over empathy and this can cause conflict. For example, if my husband and I have a disagreement, I have a hard time apologizing if I discover that I was wrong. That belief that I must always be right because I am an independent person and cannot be wrong. However, I think that the idea of appearing "weak" still pervades. Men are expected to be strong and show no emotion, and women are being told that in order to succeed, emotion cannot take over. I think that, although being true to oneself and having a sense of independence is important, it would be nice if more people were able to put others before themselves and not be offended by small things.
ReplyDeleteYes, I love that phrase, "independence over empathy." We don't like giving up that independence by admitting our fault, since that would suggest we need help being right--or we can't always rely on ourselves. It's very difficult to admit fault with someone we love, since we fear that will make us seem lesser or weaker to them as well. That's the hardest thing about a relationship, the imbalance between a couple. It should be one of equals, but it's hard for each person to really feel that way.
DeleteThe thing i find that would be the most taboo in our society is depression, anxiety or any mental issues. Most people wouldn't find it to be easy to walk to your mom and say that you hate yourself or the life she gave you. Or trying to tell others about your own feelings are also hard because people do not care, they will just push it to the side because no one wants to be sad.
ReplyDeleteYes, we don't deal well with sadness, since we equate that with failure/weakness. We have songs that celebrate the idea that "nobody can bring me down!" or "I get knocked down, and I get up again," as if staying down for any amount of time is a sissy response. But maybe those songs have never experienced true sadness? Some things you just can't get over, even if you eventually go on with life. You carry it with you. You can't always reason with your mind and heart.
DeleteFrom my perspective, one of the most taboo subjects we could discuss in our own society is the fear of not functioning how society has taught us to; to elaborate, we're taught how to live life practically in a way that will allow us to survive instead of being taught how we can live happily. Grief, trauma, or mental illness is a reoccurring issue we're seeing more often, most likely because speaking out that something is wrong with you when everyone else seems to otherwise be completely fine is an intimidating task. We're taught how our emotions and our brain works; thus, when we suddenly don't understand why we feel the way we do, as if we've suddenly become "defunct", it becomes astronomically challenging to seek help and guidance when you're afraid others will think something is "wrong" with you.
ReplyDeleteRight, we like to believe our society works flawlessly, so we should fit into that society with the belief that we live in the "best of all possible worlds" (to quote Voltaire's Candide). But we don't--no one does. Sadness is not necessarily an indictment of society, though society often contributes to this sadness. If we live in a world where we can't be sad, or can't admit weakness of any kind, it's a dystopia by default. In the Soviet Union under Stalin, you couldn't express sadness in art--it was seen as degenerate. You could be imprisoned if you suggested that the world was less than perfect, and if your leader was less than ideal. We don't live in that society (yet!), but there is a social stigma when you express such ideas, whether implicitly or explicitly.
Delete