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| From the 1996 adaptation of Persuasion |
Q2: How does Romanticism and Romantic ideas make a stronger appearance during the chapters at Lyme? How is this Austen's way of responding to concepts of sensibility and the sublime in her own, less demonstrative way? In general, do you think she is more enthusiastic or critical of the Romantics?
Q3: After the accident at Lyme, Anne reflects (thinking about Wentworth), "whether it ever occured to him now, to question the justness of his own previous opinion as to the universal felicity and advantage of firmness of character...She thought it could scarcely escape him to feel, that a persuadable temper might sometimes be as much in favour of happiness as a very resolute character" (Chapter XII). What does she mean by this, and how might this be a way of questioning how women are brought up in her society?
Q4: At Lyme Anne accidentally meets her cousin, Mr. Elliot, and he attaches himself to her vigorously at Bath. Though she seems to be everything she would want in a man, what gives her pause? Why by Chapter XVII does she almost begin to suspect him? If you're read other Austen novels, who else might he remind you of?
Elyse Marquardt
ReplyDeleteQ1. I think Captain Wentworth is looking for a rebound girl and is originally willing to settle for anything, so long as it is female and into him. We see him first become interested in Anne again as soon as he sees another man giving her an admiring look. This seems to make him realize that she has not lost the beauty that he once admired, it has only matured a bit since he last saw her. As he gets to know her bit by bit, he realizes that what she had that once charmed him has only grown and blossomed more fully since they last met. I think her character is what makes him become interested again; but he had to see that first spark of beauty before he realized that all was not lost.
Q2. Romantic ideas definitely appear more obviously at Lyme. We see a great deal of it in Anne's new friend Captain Benwick. He is a single man who lost his true love a few years ago, and since then he has walked the earth in a cloud of dejection and mystery. On page 70 of the second edition of Persuasion, Austen describes Benwick in this way: "He had a pleasing face and a melancholy air, just as he ought to have, and drew back from conversation." I think Austen is criticizing the Romantic ideas; her point that any man whose true love has died ought to be eternally miserable is an exaggeration of the Romanticism that has pervaded in lots of poetry and novels at this point in time.
Elyse Marquardt
Yes, great points...Austen is gently teasing the 'emo' people of her time, who would read Romantic poetry and wallow in melancholy emotions. Indeed, many young men of the time would affect great sorrow to be fashionable and some even killed themselves in sympathy with this or that poet. Austen loved the poetry but found these 'fans' a bit amusing, as she earlier poked fun at fans of Gothic novels in her early novel, Northanger Abbey.
DeleteAshley Bean
ReplyDelete1. Captain Wentworth seemed to be coming back to settle his name and reclaim his pride after being shot down. He comes back with money, and he definitely reminds me of Jay Gatsby from "The Great Gatsby" in some ways. I don't think he always intended to come back for Anne, but after seeing her almost daily he realized that he probably did come back for her. At first, he definitely tried to avoid her, but maybe it was playing "hard to get?"
2. As the setting changes, the group pays more and more attention to the surroundings, "with the very beautiful line of cliffs stretching out to the east of the town, are what stranger's eye will seek" (69). Austen uses this setting to do her own Romantic poetry in a way, but novel style, similar to how "Northanger Abbey" was her stab at a Gothic novel. I think she may criticize poetry in general a little bit, seeing as how some of her heroines are novel readers.
Great responses...I think he wanted to see Anne out of curiosity and to show her he had done well for himself, but the more he was around her, the more he realized how superior she was to all her 'competitors.' They are both Romantics in that they want real life instead of a portrait; she is real, flaws and all, and so is he. How could they NOT be attracted to one another?
Deleteq1. I think Wentworth has always had a yearning for Anne and given the chance to be in her company he took it. His comments seemed to be more of a jab at her--not so much his honest approach at finding a woman. I think he was just playing it cool, letting her know what she missed out on by saying he was ready to marry anyone except her, in so many words. I don't think she does the persuading here--not intentionally, anyway. She simply responds to situations as Anne and he remembers the qualities that she possesses that he once feel for seven years prior.
ReplyDeleteq2. I'm pretty sure Anne could smell the fishiness of her cousin from a mile away. I may be getting ahead of the reading here since I've finished the book, but I think that before she knows of his plans, she knows that he does in fact have a plan, which is enough to deter her. Also, she's still crazy about Wentworth, so she's looking for flaws in Mr. Elliot to convince her to deny his pursuit. She definitely thinks his opinion in Mrs. Clay and her father's relationship is inappropriate...why should he have an opinion? He only recently came into graces with Sir Walter--perhaps he shouldn't be snooping in his business.
Yes, perhaps her love for Wentworth makes her better able to see through the false flattery of Eliot. Also, Eliot represents the 18th century ideal of a polished gentleman--all polite veneer and respectability, whereas Wentworth is Romantic in the sense that he's raw and unpolished, and capable of strong emotion, both good and bad. Anne is a Romantic heroine in that she wants life, real life, not a portrait.
DeleteSteven Shelley
ReplyDeleteQ1 Some would say that Captain Wentworth is just being like every other single guy. I see him as more of someone who is single and looking for an opportunity. He becomes interested in Anne when he sees that other guys are interested in her. This is a typical guy thing to do. The book so far has gone with the theme of persuasion so I would think that she persuaded him to come back. Anne is a very crafty at this.
Q2 Romanticism and ideas are huge in this chapter. To start off with once they get to Lyme they describe the beach in very romantic ways, by describing it in very ideal and sublime ways. The way they introduce Louisa in this chapter makes her sound like the ideal romantic. They described her as doing what she liked and maintain her own way. This very romantic way showing that she is innocent. She is very critical by the way the chapter ends with Louisa getting injured. She is showing that the romantic ideals are wrong sometimes and bad stuff does happen even in nature.
Good responses...I think, though, that he was interested in her from the moment of his return. He was simply hurt and bitter, but everything he says hints at his awareness of her, even his silence. Once Mr. Eliot comes along he realizes he could lose her, but even before that, he wants to gain her back (indeed, the only time he seems genuinely interested in Louisa is when she claims she won't act the way Anne did and be 'persuaded' against love).
DeleteQ3: Louisa was being very silly and ditzy when the accident occurred. She wanted to be caught at the bottom of the steps and even upon Captain Wentworth's protests, she said, "I am determined I will" (79). I feel Anne is commenting on the fact that Louisa would not listen to reason; she could not be persuaded. Instead, she was being childish and did not see the danger right in front of her. I think Louisa is an example of what happens when girls are pushed to grow up too fast, find a husband, and have children. She cannot possibly relate to Captain Wentworth because she has yet to grow up.
ReplyDeleteQ4: Mr. Elliot left a bad taste in his family's mouth. He disregarded his commitment to them, none more so than Elizabeth. Anne cannot trust someone who so blatantly hurt her sister. He is also very cunning, but Anne feels this is a bad sign. He is too secretive about his past, making her feel uneasy about his true intentions.
Yes, Louisa shows the petulance that comes with being determined and not too thoughtful. Ironically, Anne refused Wentworth not for her own welfare or even for her family, but for him: she didn't want to shackle him to a wife before he made his fortune. She feared he would come to resent her, I think, as many a husband did. Louisa would never make such a choice, and had they married, he would have definitely come to resent her the way Wickham resented Lydia mere days after their marriage (in Pride and Prejudice).
DeleteQ1: I don’t think he was ever really lost interest in Anne. They loved each other, and when she was persuaded to say no to him it probably stung a lot. He’s come back after all this time as a far richer man, and I personally believe that he likes to tell himself that it’s because he wants to rub his success in Anne’s face, but deep down he still wants to prove to her that he would make a good husband. These two conflicting desires lead to him insulting her at first, but also mean that he will change his mind relatively easy (as compared to if he actually hated her).
ReplyDeleteQ2: Women back then never really got to go anywhere beyond their homes, so this short little trip is like an adventure to them. They went from a concrete structure to wide open spaces and an ocean that they may have never even seen before. The ocean itself is Romantic in that it is a perfect example of the sublime. It is huge not only across, but also in depth. Creatures probably washed up on shore from time to time that had never been seen before and more than likely looked like monsters to them. Half the time these naval officers may have not even known what they were doing, the ocean-world probably kept trying to do them in, and every once in a while a sea monster would drop by to take what it wanted and leave.
In a way, it’s all just a really odd metaphor about these women and the great big world outside their homes. Mary had no idea what she was doing, as did a lot of girls back then. They had no real-world experience, and so the real world tried to do them in. And every once in a while, a nice guy would come along and its only when he’s left you broken that you realize that he was a sea monster. The world that everyone lived in, that was mapped out and almost completely explored, and was so ordinary as to be called mundane, was something so vast and dangerous to these young women that it could be compared to the unpredictable and often-dangerous ocean. On the ocean people get lost, people sink and drown, pirates come to steal from you, and without a map you are practically doomed.
Romantics encourage you to look at both the beauty and the horror in the world, and often use metaphors to better put a subject into perspective. Austen looked outside one day with the eyes of a Romantic and saw both the beauty and the horror in the world. With the help of a metaphor she put it into perspective and also into words. Romanticism gave her a voice, so I do believe that she would be a little enthusiastic about using it.
Wow, you really got inspired by these questions! But you're right, going to Lyme was an adventure for them, and Anne later tells Wentworth that it was perhaps the highlight of her life. For those few days, everyone was simply alive and full of friendship and simple pleasures. Symbolically, it ends in a near death experience--as if they flew too close to the sun!
Delete1- Captain Wentworth starts noticing Anne more and more once he realizes that other men are interested. It makes him jealous. He also notices how taken advantage she is by her family and how good of a woman she is. She is a very mothering and capable character and would make a perfect wife to anyone who is lucky enough to woo her and I think he realizes this. I think he came back to see what kind of lady she's become and to kind of make her jealous. I honestly think he is still hurt by her not choosing him but he still loves her deep down.
ReplyDelete4- I think that she senses the falseness of his character. He is almost too perfect and very superficial. He rarely shows true emotions and hides behind his charming perfectness. I would find it hard to get past the "mask" he wears. She wouldn't even be able to judge his true character and sometimes that can be dangerous.
Yes, we know he never really got over her, since he's trying too hard to flirt around her, and his earliest conversations with Louisa always have Anne in mind. He more or less admits this at the end of the book (as you'll soon see!)
Delete1.) I don't think that Wentworth ever actually fell out of love with Anne, and I do think that some of the spark was still there. She is getting more attention now which is causing him to be jealous (he started coming back when he found out that Anne had refused Charles), but his ruse with the Musgrove girls was simply because he liked the attention. However, I think some of Anne's own persuasive tactics are a driving force behind the rekindling of feelings that he either suppressed or had known of all along.
ReplyDelete4. Anne seems to feel that, regardless of how her cousin - Sir Elliot - comes across, he is there to marry her sister Elizabeth and doesn't agree that he could be there to get her hand. I think this adds to how fake she feels he is, especially after he caused a distrust between himself and her father that was only forgiven when his wife passed away and he was on the market again.
Whoops, double posting! I almost accused this 'student' of plagiarizing your response! :)
Delete1.) I don't think that Wentworth ever actually fell out of love with Anne, and I do think that some of the spark was still there. She is getting more attention now which is causing him to be jealous (he started coming back when he found out that Anne had refused Charles), but his ruse with the Musgrove girls was simply because he liked the attention. However, I think some of Anne's own persuasive tactics are a driving force behind the rekindling of feelings that he either suppressed or had known of all along.
ReplyDelete4. Anne seems to feel that, regardless of how her cousin - Sir Elliot - comes across, he is there to marry her sister Elizabeth and doesn't agree that he could be there to get her hand. I think this adds to how fake she feels he is, especially after he caused a distrust between himself and her father that was only forgiven when his wife passed away and he was on the market again.
Great responses...do you think Anne is actively trying to win him back, or feels she has any real sway over him? Is she that self-aware? I think she comes to a startling realization in Bath that he still loves her and it changes her life--she never realized that a man could love and kindle a flame as long as a woman could (indeed, she gets into an argument with Captain Harville about this).
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